Saturday, January 13, 2007
Here's Public Education For You
It started over a dress code violation, hardly reason enough to throw away an
academic career and certainly no reason to be charged with a felony."I have
goals I want to achieve and this is stopping that," says 17-year old Sabrina
Herndon.Herndon was wearing a jacket and strapless top and was changing in the
girl's locker room at Palm Beach Gardens High School.A teacher noticed the
strapless top which is a dress code violation. Herndon says with the jacket
though, the top is within dress code.A male assistant principal then entered the
girl's locker room, and within minutes Herndon was in a choke hold."He came
behind me and he picked me up with it and he tried to carry me out of the locker
room and then I fell, then he came from under me and choked me a second
time."The question of course is what prompted the assistant principal to resort
to such tactics? Herndon says nothing and says she has witnesses to back her
up."I did nothing wrong to where he had to use physical force. I had no weapons,
I made no threats or anything to him."The school district also has witnesses who
say the assistant principal was justified to use force.They're not telling us
specifically what happened because Herndon is a juvenile. They are saying her
behavior warranted felony battery charges.Herndon says she doesn't understand
why she's the criminal, when she's the one who was choked."It's his word against
mine and mine is being overlooked." Herndon is now facing expulsion and her
college career is in question. A high price to pay for a fashion faux pas."For
the whole thing to go out of proportion over a dress code issue is ridiculous,"
she says.
-WPTV
America as a whole is on its way toward Fascism, but the public education system is already there. School staff has all the power in the world, and students have no rights at all. And it's not just this school, students will agree that every school has become like this. Staff can search your locker and even your car without a warrant, they are the judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to punishment, and what is to be punished doesn't come from a rulebook but from their gut. And now, apparently violent punishment is a-okay.
Will this assistant principal be punished for actions that were blatantly criminal? Of course not. If the government wants to walk into a place where there's supposed to be privacy and strangle a teenage girl based on a trivial rule, then that's okay because they're the government. Besides, by scapegoating this "violator" as the wrongdoer in the situation, they feel justified in what they did and the people just forget what happened.
This is the America me and my fellow students are living in right now. You can laugh when we say school is prison, but is it such a stretch? No. We students need to stay vocal about outrages like this, or else when we enter the real world, we'll find that it has become Fascist as well. It's only a matter of time before the government enlarges itself to this size, and every man, woman, and child is being watched by big brother. And not just watched, but oppressed. We the people must not let this happen to our country.
# posted by Cody O'Connor @ 1/13/2007 11:56:00 AM 
Comments:
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Back in the seventies you could even have a rifle at school. All the rules now are almost like encouragements, and of course some of the teachers think they have absolute power too.
# posted by 
: 1/13/2007 1:36 PM
: 1/13/2007 1:36 PM
That seems overly harsh, I agree. But the later 'outside world' can be that way. A company I worked for had a dress code far more stringent than school. People have been fired for wearing t-shirts that were deemed offensive, etc. Students should realize that
part of education is discipline,
(rightly or wrongly) because it
occurs every where, starting in the military. We all like our freedom, but a reason for discipline and rules is to avoid
anarchy. I am not an educator, but I believe the young lady's
case was handled wrongly, and someone should be held accountable.
part of education is discipline,
(rightly or wrongly) because it
occurs every where, starting in the military. We all like our freedom, but a reason for discipline and rules is to avoid
anarchy. I am not an educator, but I believe the young lady's
case was handled wrongly, and someone should be held accountable.
I agree with bb-idaho. School has rules. If students fail out of school, they usually don't do too great in the real world. There is a connection there, not only because they don't have the proper education but because they never succeeded in accepting discipline or in following rules. I do not believe that this case is an indication of the state of the school system--things like this DO NOT happen everyday.
So the teachers are fascists and the students are commies? I'm not buying it. I agree with both bb-idaho and allisoni. Also, I was surprised to see that this story wasn't from World Net Daily. Sounds like something they'd fabricate.
BB and Allisoni: I understand where you two are coming from. In fact I've said many times that the reason kids today are so ignorant is because things aren't enforced. However, it's the wrong rules that are enforced. Let me give you an example. In my school I had a teacher who would give As for writing an essay, despite the material. I had to peer-edit some of those essays, so I know how awful they were. Some of them were barely readable. It is my opinion that it is unfair to hand out As. However, in that same school, we were playing cards at lunch one day. The assistant principal tells us to stop, saying it was against school rules. We later looked into the rules. It wasn't.
My point is that teachers are enforcing the wrong rules. They think they have absolute power. What they need to do is start enforcing grading procedures, not silly things like this.
My point is that teachers are enforcing the wrong rules. They think they have absolute power. What they need to do is start enforcing grading procedures, not silly things like this.
# posted by : 1/14/2007 10:42 AM
: 1/14/2007 10:42 AM
I really think you are just bitter about how things are handled at your school, or the grades that you get. Rules are rules, no matter how significant or insignificant they may be. If you have a problem with how your teacher grades, go to talk to him or her. And if you think it is that big of a deal that you principal supposedly fabricated that rule, take it to him/her and ask about it. The biggest recommendation I can give you though, is to get over it. Life, and especially the high school part of life, isn't fair. Also, most institutions, or anywhere that instates any type of regulations, has problems with enforcement. When you're working with a large staff you can't keep tabs on what everyone is doing at all times.
I really think you are just bitter about how things are handled at your school, or the grades that you get.
Not really. Why would I be bitter about good grades?
Rules are rules, no matter how significant or insignificant they may be.
Which gives teachers the right to make up rules? Or physically manhandle students? I don't think so.
The biggest recommendation I can give you though, is to get over it. Life, and especially the high school part of life, isn't fair. Also, most institutions, or anywhere that instates any type of regulations, has problems with enforcement. When you're working with a large staff you can't keep tabs on what everyone is doing at all times.
So what? We should do nothing? We shouldn't say anything? We should let injustices happen? I don't think that's what this country was built on.
Not really. Why would I be bitter about good grades?
Rules are rules, no matter how significant or insignificant they may be.
Which gives teachers the right to make up rules? Or physically manhandle students? I don't think so.
The biggest recommendation I can give you though, is to get over it. Life, and especially the high school part of life, isn't fair. Also, most institutions, or anywhere that instates any type of regulations, has problems with enforcement. When you're working with a large staff you can't keep tabs on what everyone is doing at all times.
So what? We should do nothing? We shouldn't say anything? We should let injustices happen? I don't think that's what this country was built on.
# posted by : 1/14/2007 1:40 PM
: 1/14/2007 1:40 PM
Allisoni said...
"Rules are rules...get over it."
This is the kind of attitude that makes me sick. This idea that we must keep the status quo for everything in society. It's just like with illegal immigration. People oppose it just because it's the law. Yeah, well what if the law is wrong? Why does no one stop to think about that?
Rules are rules get over it? Come on! A girl was strangled in a locker room over a dress code and you think it's okay just because the government probably has the legal ground to do it? My moral ground transcends the legal system. What this person did was an initiation of unprovoked violence against another person, and whether you are just another person or a government official it is still wrong.
But what disturbs me even more than your blatant statist opinions, is your blatant inconsistancies. One minute you're on a spiel about how big brother is your friend, then the next you're bashing George Bush on grounds of civil rights violations. Where the hell do you stand? Or do you not even have real political values, but have become nothing more than a tool for the useless party system? Either way you're nothing more than a bitch to the government. How sad.
"Rules are rules...get over it."
This is the kind of attitude that makes me sick. This idea that we must keep the status quo for everything in society. It's just like with illegal immigration. People oppose it just because it's the law. Yeah, well what if the law is wrong? Why does no one stop to think about that?
Rules are rules get over it? Come on! A girl was strangled in a locker room over a dress code and you think it's okay just because the government probably has the legal ground to do it? My moral ground transcends the legal system. What this person did was an initiation of unprovoked violence against another person, and whether you are just another person or a government official it is still wrong.
But what disturbs me even more than your blatant statist opinions, is your blatant inconsistancies. One minute you're on a spiel about how big brother is your friend, then the next you're bashing George Bush on grounds of civil rights violations. Where the hell do you stand? Or do you not even have real political values, but have become nothing more than a tool for the useless party system? Either way you're nothing more than a bitch to the government. How sad.
Cody, I really think you need to read the rest of the comment thread before you lash out like that. I was adressing Robert and things that he said, not saying that we should just ignore what happened at this school. I do not think that this case should go un-investigated and I never once said anything justifying what happened. My main point in direct response to your post is that this kind of thing DOESN'T happen everyday and it is unfair and unjustified of you to say that this is the "type of world" students live in. I also told Robert in my last comment to do something about the injustices if they were that significant, so whatever you said about me just "sticking to the status quo" is not very accurate. So many high school kids are pissed that rules exist, they think that school is a prison simply because they think they should be allowed to do whatever they want, but that is not the case. FOr the most part the students in a high school are not adults and still don't understand the importance of education and of discipline.
Listening to phone coversations without a court order is NOT the same thing as searching lockers for drugs. When that is done, dogs are brought in and the officer opens a locker with resonable cause, not just because he feels like it. More often than not, drugs are actually found, and it's not that rare of a situation. I am not confused about where I stand.
Listening to phone coversations without a court order is NOT the same thing as searching lockers for drugs. When that is done, dogs are brought in and the officer opens a locker with resonable cause, not just because he feels like it. More often than not, drugs are actually found, and it's not that rare of a situation. I am not confused about where I stand.
It's not drug rules etc I'm concerned with. It's the fact that these teachers make things up and are allowed to. And the fact that they are allowed to enforce the rules anyway they want, including, apperantly, physical violance. That's not ok.
# posted by : 1/14/2007 3:39 PM
: 1/14/2007 3:39 PM
This story that Cody posted is still under investigation. If the violence wasn't warranted, the principal will face the consequences for that.
Don't be too sure of that. The government has a bad habit of exempting themselves from the laws they impose on us.
At this point the government is saying their actions were justified, and when that happens, they usually get off scott free. Because when it's the people versus the government, it doesn't matter who is right and what is legal, the government wins.
At this point the government is saying their actions were justified, and when that happens, they usually get off scott free. Because when it's the people versus the government, it doesn't matter who is right and what is legal, the government wins.
Sadly that's probably true. When people are in a position of power they tend to make rules that let themselves off the hook, and this affects others.
# posted by : 1/14/2007 6:39 PM
: 1/14/2007 6:39 PM
"The Government" is saying it's actions were justified? I thought we were talking about a teacher. Sounds to me like that, along with your changing political viewpoints, you are growing ever more paranoid.
In my aproximately 16 years of schooling I NEVER met a teacher who thought they had "absolute power".
In my aproximately 16 years of schooling I NEVER met a teacher who thought they had "absolute power".
All I have to say is that the rules that schools around the country often make rules not because they want to or for just for the sake of being mean, but because they get pressured by angry parents, No Child Left Behind (for which, as a republican, and as a son of a teacher, I am against)and even the misbehavior of some students. Some teachers and principals do not like to enforce some certain rules but because they are pressured by things out of there control, they have no choice. Yeah I agree with you, some rules seem unjustified and what that particular principal did was wrong but school is not meant to be a prison, it is to instill discipline and values into future citizens of our country.
# posted by : 1/14/2007 9:56 PM
: 1/14/2007 9:56 PM
I have to disagree Carl. The school isn't for instilling values, that's the parent's job. The school is there to educate. It isn't the government's responsibility to tell you to be a nice guy.
Now obviously rules should exist, but only to hold order, but to use physical violence against kids to enforce them? That's something I can't stand for.
Now obviously rules should exist, but only to hold order, but to use physical violence against kids to enforce them? That's something I can't stand for.
# posted by : 1/15/2007 12:19 AM
: 1/15/2007 12:19 AM
Ah, I see you got your mics up Cody. When will the podcast be operational? I'm itching to do one of those.
# posted by : 1/15/2007 12:21 AM
: 1/15/2007 12:21 AM
Once again, Robert, violence is not a school policy. This situation is not typical and there's really no reason to think it is.
"Ah, I see you got your mics up Cody. When will the podcast be operational? I'm itching to do one of those."
Either today or Wednesday actually. If Mike shows up today with mic #3 I'll ask you to come over and if pre show prep for the first episode doesn't take all day we can record the first one today. If not, I think we have decided that the regular recording schedual will be on Wednesday nights (7-9 PM) so we'll do it then if we're slow on things.
Either today or Wednesday actually. If Mike shows up today with mic #3 I'll ask you to come over and if pre show prep for the first episode doesn't take all day we can record the first one today. If not, I think we have decided that the regular recording schedual will be on Wednesday nights (7-9 PM) so we'll do it then if we're slow on things.
"Once again, Robert, violence is not a school policy. This situation is not typical and there's really no reason to think it is."
Typical or not, this is not acceptable, not once. This girl's life is probably ruined because of this, and the school will get off scott free. I find that outragous.
And I don't believe that it is atypical for teachers to abuse their powers. Heck, I have a teacher that makes students do pushups for swearing.
School should not be a place that uses physical dicipline. If teachers want to dock peoples grades for misbehaving, or give detentions to students who have trampled on the liberties of others, then that's fine if it's again not overly used and abused. But in the year 2007 we do not need to use any sort of physical violence as a means of dicipline. It's barbaric.
Typical or not, this is not acceptable, not once. This girl's life is probably ruined because of this, and the school will get off scott free. I find that outragous.
And I don't believe that it is atypical for teachers to abuse their powers. Heck, I have a teacher that makes students do pushups for swearing.
School should not be a place that uses physical dicipline. If teachers want to dock peoples grades for misbehaving, or give detentions to students who have trampled on the liberties of others, then that's fine if it's again not overly used and abused. But in the year 2007 we do not need to use any sort of physical violence as a means of dicipline. It's barbaric.
dervish said...
""The Government" is saying it's actions were justified?"
Yes, the school district is government, isn't it?
""The Government" is saying it's actions were justified?"
Yes, the school district is government, isn't it?
My first question to this principal is what made him instinctly use a police disarming tactic against a girl disobeying dress code? it just doesen't seem normal to me, especially in a locker room, where you could wear tity tassles and a thong if you wanted and get away with it.
# posted by : 1/15/2007 10:42 AM
: 1/15/2007 10:42 AM
Once again, Robert, violence is not a school policy. This situation is not typical and there's really no reason to think it is.
Right I know. They're two seperate issues I'm arguing though. One, what the teacher did was wrong and two, the teachers have too much power. Still, I think you could connect the two. If the government never holds the teachers accountable, they tend to think they hold absolute power.
Cody: Sounds good. Should be fun.
Carl: That's a bit of a crude way to put it Carl, but I see your point. I think the girl could use that as a defense, but the story indicates that she was changing out of the dress-code violating outfit, meaning she had worn it before. I mean I don't know many girls who would wear something like that to a sports practice or whatever.
Doesn't make it right what the teacher did though.
Right I know. They're two seperate issues I'm arguing though. One, what the teacher did was wrong and two, the teachers have too much power. Still, I think you could connect the two. If the government never holds the teachers accountable, they tend to think they hold absolute power.
Cody: Sounds good. Should be fun.
Carl: That's a bit of a crude way to put it Carl, but I see your point. I think the girl could use that as a defense, but the story indicates that she was changing out of the dress-code violating outfit, meaning she had worn it before. I mean I don't know many girls who would wear something like that to a sports practice or whatever.
Doesn't make it right what the teacher did though.
# posted by : 1/15/2007 11:31 AM
: 1/15/2007 11:31 AM
So I understand this story is still under investigation, by whom? the school, or the police?
# posted by : 1/15/2007 2:31 PM
: 1/15/2007 2:31 PM
from what it looks like, it's the school. So that pretty much means the girl gets no voice for her side of the story. She'll probably get expelled and loose any chance of getting into college.
I think she should get a lawyer, and this should be brought up in court. Because right now the school is handling everything and they're pretty much the judge, jury and executioner when it comes to situations like this.
I think she should get a lawyer, and this should be brought up in court. Because right now the school is handling everything and they're pretty much the judge, jury and executioner when it comes to situations like this.
Well I should hope she should get a judge, she was in a god damn locker room, and technically she was following the rules by having the jacket over the strapless shirt was she not? she may have had it off in a locker room bt what else was she supposed to do? make her shirt magically be appropriate for school? I also find the principal looking in the girls locker room a little suspicious, I bet he's a god damn pederass.
# posted by : 1/15/2007 3:44 PM
: 1/15/2007 3:44 PM
She can take the school to court if she disagrees with the decision. Charges have to be pressed, the school doesnt just turn it over to the court system, unless obviously there's a criminal complaint.
Naturally, there is more to the story than meets the eye. See
here for an update:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=73d971b3fdbc21514d23b0ca841b60a2&threadid=263576
..the girl has been suspended before, several girls were thrown off the basketball team for an on-court brawl. Girls will be girls, as they say, but do I sniff Duke LaCross here?
here for an update:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=73d971b3fdbc21514d23b0ca841b60a2&threadid=263576
..the girl has been suspended before, several girls were thrown off the basketball team for an on-court brawl. Girls will be girls, as they say, but do I sniff Duke LaCross here?
Well, it's obvious that there is two different stories, and I'm not buying the principals. The principals story is that he gently placed his hand on her shoulder and he was punched in the chest. My guess is that the principal grabbed her arm and she pushed him off, and then the principal grabbed her again.
But I can't say anything with 100% certainty because I wasn't there. This case deserves a fair trail in court.
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But I can't say anything with 100% certainty because I wasn't there. This case deserves a fair trail in court.
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